![]() |
| If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|||||||
| Tags: density, photon, probability |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
|
The following takes up the December/January discussion from the thread
''EM field of photon''. Based on the details given in the entry S2g. Particle positions and the position operator of my theoretical physics FAQ at http://www.mat.univie.ac.at/~neum/physics-faq.txt (cf. also S2f. What is a photon? S2h. Localization and position operators), I had concluded on January 21 that Hawton's approach does not provide a probability density with the physically necessary invariance properties. In the mean time, Margaret Hawton wrote a paper in http://lanl.arxiv.org/pdf/0804.3773v2 supposedly constructing a Lorentz invariant photon number density, as I had challenged her in that discussion. Unfortunately, the construction given in this paper is inconsistent, thus reinforcing my earlier conclusions. More specifically, Hawton constructs, starting from the free photon Fock space, in equation (6) the standard momentum space wave functions (or probability amplitudes) c_sigma(k), where sigma=+-1 and k is the 3D wave vector. Transversality implies that any such wave function satisfies k dot c_sigma(k) = 0 for all k. (*) The invariant inner product of two such wave functions c and d is d|c = sum_sigma integral dk/|k| d_sigma(k)^* c_sigma(k), in agreement with standard practice. Later, Hawton constructs in (18) supposedly physical states localized at position r at fixed time t, with circular polarization sigma. However, these states do not in general respect the transversality relation (*), hence are usually not in the physical Hilbert space of transversal states. Thus most of these states have no physical meaning. The mistake made seems to be that k and a phase chi that initially (in the discussion following (1)) depends on k are later - starting in (15), where a chi dependent position operator is defined - taken to be independent. Already after (4), it is stated that ''the chi=0 definite helicity basis will be used'' - but there is no such basis respecting the condition chi=chi(k) required by transversality. This invalidates her main conclusions. It also invalidates the consistency check after (19), where it is supposedly shown that the probability amplitudes corresponding to different pairs (r,sigma) and (r',sigma') of position and helicity are orthogonal at equal times. But this would follow only if chi were a parameter independent of k. |
| Ads |
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
|
I disagree with Neumaier’s conclusion that my Lorentz invariant
construction is inconsistent. Chi is never taken to be independent. All the states considered are transverse, and (18) just expresses a rotated transverse state in terms of the chi=0 basis. |
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
|
MargH schrieb:
I disagree with Neumaier’s conclusion that my Lorentz invariant construction is inconsistent. Chi is never taken to be independent. All the states considered are transverse, and (18) just expresses a rotated transverse state in terms of the chi=0 basis. That you disagree doesn't change my assessment of the situation. In any transversal state, the divergence of c_sigma(r,t) must vanish. But the delta-function for c_sigma(r,t) which you get in the second paragraph after (19) [which you derive from (18)] is manifestly non-transverse. So, contrary to what you say above, not all the states considered are transverse. Your sloppiness in ignoring the k-dependence of chi allows you to ''derive'' the non-transverse delta state as integral over transverse states, which is clearly impossible. In the paper, you call this a consistency check. Others call this a proof of faulty reasoning. Arnold Neumaier |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| gas reaction probability and density | rob | Physics - General Discussion | 2 | May 16th 07 09:59 AM |
| New thread : Probability density in spacetime | Arnold Neumaier | Current Physics Research (Moderated) | 4 | October 12th 04 04:50 PM |
| New thread : Probability density in spacetime | Arnold Neumaier | Current Physics Research (Moderated) | 0 | October 6th 04 02:03 PM |
| New thread : Probability density in spacetime | Charles J. Quarra | Current Physics Research (Moderated) | 0 | October 5th 04 12:42 PM |
| New thread:Probability density in spacetime | Daryl McCullough | Current Physics Research (Moderated) | 0 | October 4th 04 06:21 PM |