Mike Helland:
Bilge,

I am admitting that spacetime is curved. You claim that matter is what
curves. I'm wondering if you have an experiment to prove this claim on
cause and effect.

Light follows geodesics. Light follows a curved trajectory as it passes
by the sun. This is measured during an eclipse. The positions of stars
are shifted when compared with the same positions seen in the night sky.

This experiment proves that light follows geodesics. Thats not what I
asked.

Lets say we have two statements:

1. Gravity is light following curved geodesics
2. Gravity curves geodesics

Can you think of an experiment that supports one statement over the
other? That was what I requested. See, right the

"I'm wondering if you have an experiment to prove this claim on cause
and effect."

Your experiment merely proves something about the effects, and not the
cause.

What "causes" the pythagorean theorem? What "causes" F = ma? What
"causes" L = r x p? What "causes" a "straight" line to be straight?
What "causes" the circumference of a circle to be 2\pi x the radius?
What causes the volume of a rectangular parallelepiped to be L X W x H?


Bilge, it is clear that you are a very knowledgable student of
physics. However, I am trying to discuss this topic at a level of
abstraction that you have not been able to rise to.

On the contrary. You are unable to let go of the concrete classical
intuition that biases your thinking. If you could see the bigger picture,
you would realize that what you are asking doesn't make sense any more
sense than asking for a physical reason that there are 2\pi radians in
a circle.

You have not addressed my questions of GR at
the same level they have been presented.

I've tried and it's very frustrating because you won't address the
the questions I've posed to get you to see the problem with your
question.

In that case, curvature should not be a problem. Quantum field
theory makes use of curvature tensors for quantum fields.

First, you are right, its not a problem. Which is why I said in my
last umpteen messages that "I agree that spacetime is curved."

Then, what's the problem?

Second, "making use of" and "causing" are completely different topics.

You have the same problem that others who want a "cause" have. You
fail to see that you don't ask the exact same questions about the
geometry you take for granted. Why are two different paths to the
store, different distances? What causes that?

Once again, I applaud your knowledge, but you have not looked past the
knowledge obtained through your studies to answer questions that are
obviouslly very new to you.

You haven't studied enough physics to realize that your question
is meaningless. You are wanting an answer that would not make sense.
You are not asking anything abstract. You fail to understand the
abstraction. Again, I ask you, why should spacetime need a "cause"
to be curved? Why should in not need a cause to be flat?