Carl Sagan ****ed on Vedic science = crapware
put your godhead back in your pants.
"Acintya-bhedabheda", give me a break!
.................................................. ............................

"OsherD" wrote in message
oups.com...
From Osher Doctorow

Dr. Jai Maharaj typed (quoting from Carl Sagan's Cosmos):


Types of Vedic science

Adherents of Maharishi Vedic science describe it as the science of self
(atmavidya). Veda means knowledge; and Vedic science asserts that there are
two kinds of knowledge: lower or outer, and higher or inner. Further, the
Vedic system asserts that one needs traditional modes of reasoning to obtain
outer knowledge. But to obtain inner knowledge, special study, discipline
and practice is recommended.
Vedic science claims that there is a connection between the outer and the
inner and this connection manifests itself in our awareness. Vedic science
is another name for the science of consciousness. It also claims that such a
science cannot be like any standard science, since it deals with the
experiencing subject and not objects.

Some believe that these writings to anticipate modern science suggesting
that many mathematical axioms of modern age have their ancient equivalents
in the Vedic chants. Vedic mathematical methods are said to aid in fast and
accurate mental multiplication of extremely large numbers using numeric
properties as their base. The branch of study of vedic methods in
mathematics is commonly referred to as Vedic mathematics.

[edit]Criticisms of Vedic science

Critics dencounce these theories as pseudoscience similar to Western
Creation science. Some charge that "Vedic science" is promulgated by
right-wing Hindutva (Hindu nationalist) politicians as part of their
cultural agenda.

Physics to Metaphysics

For India's great realizers, the primary evidence in support of their theses
is revealed scripture (sastra), such as the Vedanta-sutras. This evidence is
considered to originate beyond the limits of human reasoning. Yet,
especially for Westerners, as an introduction to the virtues of scriptural
evidence, it may be prudent to first discuss the concept of a transcendental
personal Godhead in the context of modern science and quantum mechanics in
particular.

In the transition from Newtonian classical physics to quantum mechanics,
several scientists have explored the possibility of a connection between
physics and transcendence. This may be due to the more abstract nature of
quantum mechanics as opposed to classical physic. For example, classical
physics attempts to describe the physical reality in concrete, easily
understandable terms, while quantum mechanics deals in probabilities and
wave functions. Quantum mechanics, however, is much more rigorous in its
attempt to describe reality and it explains phenomena that classical physics
fails to account for. The "quantum leap" has given several physicists the
hope that the transcendentalist's experience of consciousness can be
explained by quantum mechanical theory. Although quantum theory does not
account for consciousness, it has become popular to attempt to bridge the
gap between the transcendentalist's experience and the quantum mechanic
worldview. Some people have loosely called this attempt the "new physics."

The rational, spiritually minded community cheered the appearance of Fritjof
Capra's The Tao of Physics and Gary Zukav's Dancing Wu Li Masters. Several
years later, David Bohm's Wholeness and the Implicate Order was similarly
praised. Although there is good reason to applaud these authors' work and
the work of others like them, their theories, scientifically speaking, do
not bridge the gap between physics and transcendence. However, these
scientists have to some extent become "believers," and their theories have
turned many educated people in the spiritual direction.

Of all the recent attempts to show the "oneness" in what physicists and
transcendentalists speak of, Bohm's implicate order theory is the most
worthy of consideration. In comparison, Capra's "realization" that the dance
of Siva and the movement of atomic particles is one and the same-although
profoundly beautiful-falls more in the realm of poetry than science.

Bohm's explanation of reality involves what he calls an "implicate" and
"explicate" order, with vague references to love, compassion, and other
similar attributes that may lie beyond both the implicate and explicate
orders. The implicate order is the ultimate reality, which underlies our
present perception of the world. The reality that we perceive is what Bohm
calls the explicate order. All order and variety, according to Bohm, is
stored at all times in the implicate order in an enfolded or unmanifested
state. Information continually unfolds, or becomes manifest, from the
implicate order as the explicate order of our experience.

Bohm uses the example of the hologram to help explain his theory. A hologram
is a photographic plate on which information is recorded as a series of
density variations. Because holography is a method of lensless photography,
the photographic plate appears as a meaningless pattern of swirls. When a
coherent beam of light-typically a laser-interacts with the plate, the
resultant emerging light is highly ordered and is perceived as an image in
three dimensions. The image has depth and solidity, and by looking at it
from different angles, one will see different sides of the image. Any part
of the hologram will reproduce the whole image (although with less
resolution). Bohm would say that the three-dimensional form of the image is
enfolded or stored in the pattern of density variations on the hologram.

A further understanding of the nature of Bohm's implicate order is somewhat
more difficult to grasp. In the transition from the classical description of
physical objects to a quantum mechanical description, one is forced to use
mutually incompatible descriptions. The
concept of complementarity, conceived of in the 1920s by the physicist Niels
Bohr, says that to understand the behavior of electrons, it is necessary to
describe them as pointlike particles and extended waves. This leads
naturally to the thought that electrons or their ultimate substrate, may not
actually be fully describable in mathematical terms. Thus the ultimate
physical reality may be only partially definable, because some of the
partial descriptions will inevitably contradict each other. This is Bohm's
idea regarding the nature of his implicate order.

Although Bohm accepts a whole containing distinguishable parts, he maintains
that ultimately reality is fundamentally devoid of variety or individuality.
Bohm believes that individuality is a temporal or illusory state of
perception. According to his theory, although the parts appear to be
distinct from the whole, in fact, because they "enfold" or include the
whole, they are identical with the whole.
The hologram provides an easily understandable example. If portions of a
hologram are blocked off, the resultant image remains basically the same.
This helps to illustrate metaphorically the concept that the whole is
present in each of its parts. Consider, then, a continuum in which all
patterns ever manifested in any part of the continuum are represented
equally in all parts. Loosely speaking, one could then say that the whole of
the continuum in both space and time is present in any part of the
continuum. If we invoke the precedent of quantum mechanical indefinability,
we could leap to the idea of a unified consciousness encompassing all space
and time in which each part of the consciousness contains the whole of the
consciousness and thus is identical to it.

Although Bohm's theory of the implicate order is partially based on the
standard methodology of physics, it is also apparent that it involves ideas
not found in traditional science. Most of these ideas are clearly the
influence of a preconceived notion of nondualism. Richard Thompson, author
of Mechanistic and Non-Mechanistic Sciences, has brought out some of the
weaknesses in Bohm's theory, which he feels are due to Bohm's prejudice
toward monism.

Thompson points out in his critique that while Bohm emphatically states that
it is not possible for unaided human thought to rise above the realm of
manifest matter (explicate order), he proceeds to carry on a lengthy
discussion about the unmanifest (implicate order). Bohm also states that all
things are timeless and unitary, and therefore incapable of being changed.
Later, he proposes that through collective human endeavor the state of
affairs can be changed. This is similar to the contradiction of
advaita-vedanta in which ultimate oneness is thought to be attained even
though it is beyond time and is forever uninfluenced by our actions.

Bohm's theory is sorely in need of a logical source of compassion so as to
provide inspiration enabling finite beings to know the infinite. Although he
speaks of compassion, it is only in a vague reference to an abstract
attribute. The idea of an entity possessing compassion is avoided by Bohm
(although he almost admits the need). He retreats from this idea because the
standard notions of a personal God are dualistic and thus undermine the
sense that reality at the most fundamental plane is unified.

Bohm's idea that the parts of the implicate order actually include the whole
is not fully supported by his physical examples alone. Indeed, this is
impossible to demonstrate mathematically. The part of the hologram is not
fully representative of the whole. The part suffers from lack of resolution.
It is qualitatively one but quantitatively different.

Bohm's explanation for the corruption in human society is another
shortcoming in his theory. The theory alleges that evil arises from the
explicate order. This is in contradiction with the basis of the theory,
which states that everything in the explicate order unfolds from the
implicate order. This means that evil and human society, or something at
least resembling them, must be originally present in the implicate order.
But what would lead us to believe that an undifferentiated entity would
store anything even remotely resembling human society? How could there be
evil in the implicate order if it is the source of love and compassion?

These are some of the scientific and philosophical problems with the theory
of the implicate order pointed out by Thompson. These problems are resolved
by Thompson, however, by replacing advaita-vedanta with acintya-bhedabheda.
Simply stated, acintya-bhedabheda means that reality is inconceivably one
and different at the same time. Acintya-bhedabheda holds that the world of
material variety is illusory but not altogether false. It insists that there
is a transcendental variety and spiritual individuality that lies beyond
illusion.
The history of philosophy bears evidence that neither the concepts of
oneness (nondualism) or difference (dualism) are adequate to fully describe
the nature of being. Exclusive emphasis on oneness leads to the denial of
the world and our very sense of self as an individual-viewing them as
illusion. Exclusive emphasis on difference divides reality, creating an
unbridgeable gap between man and God. Yet both concepts are essential
inasmuch as unity is a necessary demand of our reason, while difference is
an undeniable fact of our experience. A synthesis of the two can be seen as
the goal of philosophy. In the theory of acintya-bhedabheda, the concepts of
oneness and difference are transcended and reconciled into a higher
synthesis; thus, they become complementary aspects of Godhead, for whom all
things are possible.

The word acintya is central to the theory. It can be defined as the power to
reconcile the impossible. Acintya is that which is inconceivable, because it
involves contradictory notions, yet it can be appreciated through logical
implication.
Acintya, inconceivable, is different from anirvacaniya, or indescribable,
which is said to be the nature of transcendence in the monistic school of
thought.1 Anirvacaniya is the joining of the opposing concepts of reality
and illusion, producing a canceling effect-a negative effect. Acintya, on
the other hand, signifies a marriage of opposite concepts leading to a more
complete unity-a positive effect.
An example drawn from material nature may help us understand the concept of
acintya-bhedabheda. We cannot think of fire without the power of burning;
similarly, we cannot think of the power of burning without fire. Both are
identical. While fire is nothing but that which burns; the power of burning
is but fire in action. Fire and its burning power are not absolutely the
same, however. If they were absolutely the same, there would be no need to
warn children that fire burns. It would be sufficient to say "fire." In
reality, the fire is the energetic source of the power to burn. From this
example drawn from the world of our experience, we can deduce that the
principle of simultaneous oneness and difference is all-pervading, appearing
even in material objects.

Just as there is neither absolute oneness nor absolute difference in the
material example of fire and burning power, there is neither absolute
oneness nor absolute difference between Godhead and his energies. Godhead
consists of both the energetic and the energy, which are one yet different.
Godhead is complete without his various emanations. This is absolute
completeness. No matter how much energy he distributes, he remains the
complete balance.

In the theory of acintya-bhedabheda, the personal form of God exists beyond
material time in a transtemporal state, where eternality and the passage of
time are harmonized by the principle of simultaneous oneness and
variegatedness. This principle also applies to transcendental form. In the
material conception of form, the whole can be reduced to a mere
juxtaposition of the parts. This makes the form secondary. In the theory of
acintya-bhedabheda, the material conception of form is transcended. The
Supreme Being is fully present in all the parts that make up the total
reality and thus is one unified principle underlying all variegated
manifestations. Yet he has his own personality and is different from his
parts or energies at the same time. Each of the parts of Godhead's form are
equal to each other and to the whole form as well. At the same time, each of
the parts remains a part. This is fundamental to the philosophical outlook
of acintya-bhedabheda. It allows for the eternal individuality of all things
without the loss of oneness or harmony. It also allows for the possibility
that human beings, even while possessing limited mind and senses, can come
to know about the nature of transcendence. The infinite, being so, can and
does reveal himself to the finite. Just as the eye cannot see the mind but
can be in connection with it if the mind chooses to think about it, the
finite can know about the infinite by the grace of the infinite.

If Godhead has personal form, it is reasonable to conclude that a
transcendental society exists that resembles human society and could unfold
as the explicate order. In this conception, the explicate order is a
perverted reflection of the ultimate reality existing in the transcendental
realm. The reflection of that realm, appearing as the explicate order, is
the kingdom of God without God. It is without God inasmuch as God, being the
center of the ultimate reality, no longer appears to be the center. This
produces illusion and thus corruption. The basis of corruption is the
misplaced sense of proprietorship resulting in the utterly false notions of
"I" and "mine."
According to acintya-bhedabheda, the individual self is a minute particle of
will or consciousness-a sentient being-endowed with a serving tendency. This
tendency for service is a result of the individual self's dependency on the
Supreme Self. The Supreme Self is the maintainer, while the individual self
is maintained. This minute self is transcendental to matter and
qualitatively one with Godhead while quantitatively different. The inherent
smallness of the atomic soul in contrast to Godhead makes the atomic soul
prone to illusion, whereas Godhead is not. This is analogous to the example
of the hologram in which only a portion of the holographic plate is
illuminated. The resultant image, although apparently complete, is slightly
fuzzy and does not give the total three-dimensional view from all directions
that one would observe if the entire holographic plate were illuminated.

Living in illusion, the atomic soul sees herself as separate from Godhead.
As a result of imperfect sense perception, she makes false distinctions,
such as good and bad, happy and sad. The minute self can also live in an
enlightened state in complete harmony with the Godhead by the latter's
grace-which is attracted by sincere petition or devotion. This is so because
while independent and unlimited, Godhead is affectionately disposed to the
atomic souls. The very nature of devotion is that it is of another world,
and for it to be devotion in the full sense, it must be engaged in for its
own sake and nothing else. This act of devotion is the purified function of
the inherent serving tendency of the self. It makes possible a communion
with Godhead. In this communion, the self becomes one in purpose with
Godhead and eternally serves Godhead with no sense of separateness from him.
If we accept this theory, there is scope for action from within the
explicate order, such as prayer or meditation, to have influence upon the
whole. At least it appears as though the atomic soul can have influence on
the whole, although in reality the inspiration for prayer and meditation
comes from Godhead.

Acintya-bhedabheda cannot be fully appreciated without reference to the
Vedic literature, or revealed scripture. The truth of the personality of
Godhead, a supreme controller and enjoyer, will never be demonstrated in the
laboratory of the controlled experiment. We can only control that which is
inferior to ourselves. Revealed scripture is one of the principal means
through which Godhead chooses to make himself known to us. While we can
explain Sri Chaitanya's theory of acintya-bhedabheda and conception of a
divine person to some extent in the language of logic and modern science, a
more comprehensive understanding of his truth is derived from the essence of
the revealed scripture. [Reprinted with permission from Saranagati OnLine
Magazine]

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