On a sunny day (Tue, 23 Aug 2005 12:39:52 -0700) it happened Eugene
Stefanovich wrote in :



Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 22 Aug 2005 15:24:10 -0700) it happened Eugene
Stefanovich wrote in :


How would you explain the fact that when the frequency of the wave is
below the threshold, the ball will never leave the hole no matter
how high is the amplitude of the wave? That's what happens in real
photo-electric effect.

Eugene.

Hi, I have made a better model now, it is in an other post, marked
[More on: part 2] Explaining the photo electric effect from the wave perspective.
But as it is actually (in my view)an electromagnetic effect, I will repeat
that text here for you.
Pleae not also that in the case of the magnet, the amplitude makes no
difference, only the speed at which it moves (frequency).
So there is your threshold.

You probably wanted to say "acceleration at which it moves".
No no, I tried to convey: speed, the speed with which you wave the magnet,
so frequency.
What happens is that the ball will fly away when the change in direction of
movement happens near top or bottom wave.
And please remember this is a analogy.


Speed plays
no role here. Then please note that acceleration of periodic movement
is proportional to the amplitude b
(it is also proportional to the square of frequency f)

x(t) = b sin(ft)
v(t) = bf cos(ft)
a(t) = -bf^2 sin(ft)

So, if you keep the frequency constant and increase the amplitude
(use light of higher intensity), then at some point you should
reach the threshold acceleration and, therefore, electron emission.
No I think not, the thing will release on a speed CHANGE (direction
change) I have now just spend some moments playing with a piece
of iron stuck to a magnetic pendulum.
It is true that if you connect the ball at the bottom of the wave,
(pendulum left) then it will acellerate until all the way right the
direction change nears, and fly of (to the right).
Anyways, this is an analogy again, of cause it does not hold.

This is not what happens in the photoelectric effect.
If the frequency of light is low, then no matter how high is the
amplitude (light intensity), you'll not see the electron emission.


What I am trying to do is somehow come to some interference of
De Broglie's wave with the incoming light.
At several points today I wanted to go for help to sci.math, as it
does get really complicated.
Internet google is a great help though, plenty of info.

So, what would happen if we could cancel (by superposition) a De Broglie
(phase) wave of the electron with the incoming wave....
(at one point is enough, the electron would fly away, or distort that
wave so it is catapulted away), with the kinetic energy gained from the
incoming light EM wave energy.
A sort of tjunami freak wave effect? :-)
There seem to be both an interference (multiplication) and a addition
possibility.

In fact this is what I am trying to understand, this game of
wave patterns that happens in the atom when it is hit by the EM light wave.
For now I have a piece of paper full of values and formulas...


Of course, at very high intensities you'll start to see the emission,
but this will be due to two-photon processes (electron absorbs two
photons at once) which have nothing to do with the "normal" situation
discussed here.

Possible, but I dunno anything about that.

Eugene.


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