Thread: It's all wrong.
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Old July 11th 03 posted to sci.physics,alt.sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,sci.math
John Schoenfeld
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Posts: 1,610
Default It's all wrong.

You still have it all wrong.

No he doesn't. You do.


Your reasons for this assertion are irrelevent and fail to explain the
mechanics behind point mass collisions.

POINT mass A has mass Ma.
POINT mass B has mass Mb.
At time t, a collision occurs at POINT p.

So at time t we observe mass A and mass B existing simultaneously at
point P. An equivalent observation would be that there exists a SINGLE
POINT mass C with mass Ma+Mb existing at POINT P at time t.


That's your mistake. If the collision occurs, where did the energy
go? It went into additional mass at the point of impact. or else some
or all of it went into heat. Whatever energy is not dissipated as heat,
is the kinetic energy given to the masses as they separate.


The issue is not with dynamics but with mechanics - specifically,
Newtons THIRD law claiming that paired equal and opposite forces occur
at the point of collision. Two point particles never collide unless
they occupy the same point in space. At the point of collision the two
point masses are equivalent to a single point mass and thus the forces
predicted by Newtons third law superimpose and nullify one another.
Once again, you might want to do your credibility some good and rather
than attacking myself personally, explain how this situation is
avoided without the extreme claim that "point masses do not exist".


Also at time t, we have the paired force as predicted by Newtons 3rd
law. Given that there is a single POINT mass at point p, then the
superposition principle applies and the paired forces cancel each
other out as predicted.


Wrong. The kinetic energy is transformed into heat if the collision
is perfectly inelastic. If you use forces, then you have to use impulses.


This is an example of the irrelevancy your posts tend to contain.

p_1 + p_2 = \integral F dt

The impulse is \integral F dt.

Do you see the problem yet?


Yes. You need to study newtonian mechanics.

Newton's Three Laws of Motion:

1. If a body has no forces acting on it, then it either remains
stationary or it moves uniformly.


Empirical evidence implies otherwise.


No, it doesn't.


2. The time-derivative of the momentum of a body is equal to the
sum of the forces which are exerted on the body.


Contact forces can never exist as they are always cancelled out at the
point of contact.


Wrong, unless you plan to make energy disappear.

3. Forces are paired in such a manner that the forces in a pair
are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction. The two forces
in a pair are caused by the same mechanism. The same body
experiences one of the forces and exerts the other, so that if
one force in a pair is exerted on body A by body B, then the
other force in the pair is exerted on body B by body A.



The problem with Newtons laws is that they do not define what a body
is and isn't. Furthermore, Newtons laws do not prohibit the existence
of POINT


Actually, they do, unless you want to think newtons laws allow for
infinite mass densities. Tell me, if the mass density is infinite,
what's the integral of the mass density over a point?


Mass density is not infinite, but continuous over space. You have no
evidence suggesting otherwise unless you invoke quantum mechanics
which is ultimately derived from Newtons work and inapplicable in this
very basic scenario.
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