"Ken S. Tucker" escreveu na mensagem
...
On May 4, 10:22 am, "El Enrrabadore-mor"
wrote:
"Tom Roberts" escreveu na
...

One can analyze their experiment (including comparison to muon decay at
rest) in two different ways:
a) use the overall inertial frame of their storage ring
and apply SR.
b) use the equivalence principle of GR, and treat the LOCAL
acceleration of the stored muons as a gravitational field
and compute the gravitational time dilation in LOCAL
coordinates in which the stored muon is at rest.
These obtain the same answer.

Moreover:
Your a) appeals on velocity as the cause of
time dilatation.
Your b) appeals on acceleration (or gravity
by equivalence principle) to be the cause on
time dilatation.

Physics say:
c) Acceleration is the time derivative of velocity.

My c) proves your a) and b) to be incompatible,
since time used on the derivative is ABSOLUTE
TIME.

I think Roberts is right, and I think you
should think in terms of Action where relativity
is concerned, then it smoothly interfaces with
Quantum Theory.
Ken

Hi Ken.
I know that Tom Roberts is honest and someone
that usually knows what he says.
Quantum Theory is a very strange approach
and looks like a magic box where everything is
possible.
Maybe, there's one possible understandable
situation where the above three situations a), b)
and c) can be made compatible.

My best candidate are gyroscopes.
Gyroscope equations, based on Newton and
Lagrange, produce two orthogonal independent
axes where equalities between acceleration and
terms like 1/2 v^2 exist, plus a minus sign to make
both effects cancel each other out on a Conservation
of Energy equation.
Action over a gyroscope (force = mass*acceleration)
always cause a reaction on an orthogonal axis, called
precession, which is a velocity without any force
(acceleration) involved around it.
The effect is due to the fact that torque equals the
rate of change of angular momentum, so that action
and reaction are placed on orthogonal axis.
Gravity should be the force that makes orbiting mass
to behave like if it was a rigid body. Such rigid body
like must be quantized, since mass is always located
where the gravitation force cancel the centrifugal force
(do you remember that?).

But the above is pure speculations, which I've pulled
out of my hat this afternoon, so...

Nevertheless, there are two pillar stones in
Physics:
1 - Conservation of Angular Momentum.
(No matter if it is circular motion or linear
motion. For circular motion the conservation
only exists relative to the center of rotation, but
for linear motion conservation exists relative to
every point in space);
2 - Conservation of Energy.

Now, energy is the time derivative of the
angular momentum, and that time is an
absolute time.
How can the above two pillar stones of
Physics survive in view of time dilatation
(and time not being absolute after all)?