George Hammond wrote:
On Fri, 2 May 2008 12:06:11 -0700 (PDT), Roger Pearse
wrote:
On 1 May, 16:35, none ""doug\"@(none)" wrote:
Roger Pearse wrote:
On 29 Apr, 08:19, none ""doug\"@(none)" wrote:
George Hammond wrote:
("4-demigods") Matt, Mark, Luke and John.
These last four are the books chosen by the council ofNicea
to be in the New Testament.
The Council of Nicaea did not determine the content of scripture. The
4 gospels are considered canonical by all the ante-Nicene fathers,
right back as far as it goes.
Luke and John were written in Turkey 100-200 years after Matthew and
Mark so that is not quite correct.
Um, if Matthew was written ca. 80 AD, then you are saying Luke and
John were written between 180 AD and 280 AD? This is absurd. There
are shed-loads of quotations from them both before those dates. There
are commentaries on them from 200 AD! There's even a bit of a
physical manuscript dated to ca. 125 AD.
But I don't quite see what this wild stuff has to do with my comment.
I heard this story about the bible and the council some years ago and
got suspicious. It sounded wrong, based on what I knew ofTertullian
and the ante-Nicene fathers. So I went out and hunted down all the
primary sources on the council. You can consult them he
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html
I also looked in Metzger on the Canon of the NT, just to check I
hadn't missed any.
The council also voted as to whether women were humans.
What a curious idea; impossible for any Christian council to do such a
thing. Someone is pulling your leg, my friend.
This is an interesting assumption. Why would you insult them to suggest
this? ...
Come, this won't do. You know very well why this claim about the
Council is made -- it's an appeal to contemporary societal values and
is intended as a smear. Either produce evidence for your claim or
retract it, hey?
The point of the council was to try to unify the various christian sects
No, I'm afraid it was not. Christianity was not split into sects at
that date. Rather it was to decide whether the Second person of the
Trinity was of the same substance (homoousios) as the First person, or
of like substance; and to reach an agreed date on which to celebrate
Easter.
No, there were some severe differences.
Evidence?
And the sects still do not agree on the date for easter for example.
Which 'sects' did not agree on this? Name them.
The reality is that Christians in the East and West, who were all in
communion with each other, did not celebrate it at the same time, for
historical reasons. That is one reason why they wanted to get together
and work out an agreement. There was no quarrel between the bishops
of Rome and Alexandria on this; they just didn't have an agreed way to
do it.
They also decided to not include other groups texts such as the
gosphel of thomas. Someone
had to go through and select among the texts from various groups
and then edit them to make them somewhat more consistent.
Well, I'm going to have to be blunt. Please now produce an ancient
text which supports this claim or retract it. :-)
Seriously, all this is bunk. I have given you a link to all the
ancient texts that refer in any way to the council of Nicaea. None of
them contain the above story.
... and so it accepted the texts from various ones even though there
are terrible discrepancies between them.
This sounds like a confused memory of the fact that the last few books
(2 and 3 John, 2 Peter, Hebrews, Revelation) were not geographically
spread over the same areas, and harmonisation gradually happened after
the church became legal when it was easier to hold councils.
Matthew for instance, is the jewish book ... (snip)
None of the assertions snipped appear relevant to my comment, tho.
All this probably has no direct relevance on your thread, but don't we
all want to have the right raw *data*? I know that I do. I hope that
helps.
You are correct that it has no relevance and that George has no clue
about the connection he is trying to draw with his word salad between
science and religion.
I have no opinion on George's theory (I can't take any interest in
such things), but it sounds a bit odd.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
[Hammond]
Caution Roger, Doug claims he's a "Physics PhD",
however, the low intellectual, and decidedly non-scientific
content of his posts indicates that he is an applied physics
technician at best, and OBVIOUSLY is an aggravated and
snooty anti-religious heckler.
In other words, we point out your silly mistakes and you do
not like that.
Again, my long experience with this type of personality
shows them to be utterly INCORRIGIBLE and resistant to any
logical or factual argument.
We point out your mistakes because we understand logic and
factual arguments. You do not. You have no understanding of
the scientific methods and, when asked, just post your cv
which proves nothing. As indeed your "proof" does not.
The fact that he is unable to read and comprehebnd the
S.P.O.G. which has been peer published and copy posted at:
http://geocities.com/scientific_proo...ammond5s1.html
demonstrates theat he is NOT competent in graduate level
physics.... in fact, lacking any verification of his
credentials or even his real name, odds are that he is in
fact a CRACKPOT and a COMPLETELY FAKE and an IMPOSTER.
I have read it, laughed and marveled that you could actually
put this kind of nonsense out where people might see it.
It is hilarious but has no relation to a god, to science
or to a proof.
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