On 23 apr, 21:19, George Hammond wrote:
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:24:59 -0700 (PDT),

" wrote:

So the universe DID exist a biilion years ago because we can
experience electro magnetic waves coming from a billion lightyears
away right NOW!

Peter van Velzen
April 23, 2008
Amstelveen
The Netherlands

[Hammond]
* *WRONG.
The 13 billion year old electromagnetic waves didn't come
into "existence" until MAN came into existence 200,000 years
ago.

This is because here was no such thing as "EXISTENCE" before
MAN came into existence, BECAUSE "existence" is a property
of the human mind. *No humans, no existence.

The fact that we can see 13 billion year old electromagnetic
waves coming in from outer space merely means that:

* * * * The "exixtence" of of 13 billion year old
* * * * *e.m. waves came into "existence" 200,000
* * * * *years ago when Man came into existence
* * * * *because TIME ITSELF came into existence
* * * * *when Man came into existence.

Although you did not do me right by impolitly saying "wrong", I will
not wrong you by saying not "right". I just want to point out some
interesting facts concerning the matter.

Until recently - say 1830 when Leyell published his principles of
geology - the universe was not 13 billion years old, but only 6000!
The age might yet change in the future, but most people will claim the
electromagnetic waves came into existence billions of years ago and
not with the invention of the radio-telescope in 1937.

I am afraid the meaning of the word existence as you see it, only
exists in your mind, and not in that of other people. When you die it
will probably cease to exist.
Though I will try and remember you.

In the meantime I will keep thinking that the "idea of existence" came
into the world because humans invented the idea. But that the facts
that they try to describe by using the word existence, are meant to be
independent off humans existing.

That is to say: When people like me say "it existed there and then" we
do not mean, people had thought about it already there and then, but
we mean to say, that future observations will not falsify the theory
that it was present there and then.

My opinion is you are mixing up the word and it's meaning.

But don't give up,

I have fun trying to distinguish what you are mixing up :-)

Peter van Velzen
April 2008
Amstelveen
The Netherlands