"George Hammond" wrote in message
...
| On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 05:54:58 GMT, George Hammond
| wrote:
|
| On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 01:09:01 +0100, "Andy F."
| wrote:
|
| [Andy F.]
| There's a human opinion based on sensory perception that the universe has
| been around for billions of years.
|
| [Hammond]
| There is overwhelming evidence based on scientific
| deduction that *IF* a person existed a billion years ago,
| then he would have indeed observed the Universe to exist. I
| throughly agree with that and anybody who doesn't is
| certifiably either crazy or incompetent.
|
| [Andy F.]
| This means the universe existed before
| humans did.
|
|
| [Hammond]
| WRONG, DEAD WRONG ANDY.
|
| 1) The "existence", of anything, depends entirely on the
| sensory perception of Man. There IS NO definition
| of the word "existence" that is independent of the
| action of a HUMAN observer.
| Proof: If all men died tomorrow at 9am, there
| would no longer be any way to ascertain at 9:01am
| if ANYTHING whatsoever "existed". The word
| "existence" has no meaning whatsoever
| without the existence of human beings.
|
| 2) But what your statement above says, is that
| circumstantial evidence indicates (indeed
| conclusively) that *IF* a human observer existed
| a billion years ago, then he "would have" observed
| that the Universe "existed". And I thoroughly
| agree with that statement.
|
| 3) However, in point of fact, no such human observer
| did exist a billion years ago, therefore, by paragraph
| 1 above, the Universe actually did *NOT* "exist"
| a billion years ago.... even though it "would have"
| if anybody was around to see it.
|
| [Andy F.]
| So it's not possible for humans to have created the universe.
|
|
| [Hammond]
| Wrong again.
| The above proof demonstrates conclusively that Man
| "caused" the Universe to come into "existence" since ONLY A
| HUMAN can confirm that anything "exists".
| In short, "existence" is a PROPERTY of the human mind. No
| people, no existence, of anything!
| =====================================
| SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
|
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
| mirror site:
|
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
| GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
|
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
| =====================================
|
I guess I've heard all now. This thinking is along the same lines as " does
refrigerator light really go out when the doors closed " and " the tree
falls in the forest and nobody's around
"George Hammond" wrote in message
...
| On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 05:54:58 GMT, George Hammond
| wrote:
|
| On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 01:09:01 +0100, "Andy F."
| wrote:
|
| [Andy F.]
| There's a human opinion based on sensory perception that the universe has
| been around for billions of years.
|
| [Hammond]
| There is overwhelming evidence based on scientific
| deduction that *IF* a person existed a billion years ago,
| then he would have indeed observed the Universe to exist. I
| throughly agree with that and anybody who doesn't is
| certifiably either crazy or incompetent.
|
| [Andy F.]
| This means the universe existed before
| humans did.
|
|
| [Hammond]
| WRONG, DEAD WRONG ANDY.
|
| 1) The "existence", of anything, depends entirely on the
| sensory perception of Man. There IS NO definition
| of the word "existence" that is independent of the
| action of a HUMAN observer.
| Proof: If all men died tomorrow at 9am, there
| would no longer be any way to ascertain at 9:01am
| if ANYTHING whatsoever "existed". The word
| "existence" has no meaning whatsoever
| without the existence of human beings.
|
|
Your theory is along the same lines as " if a tree falls in the forest, and
no one is around to hear it, did it really make a sound ". If every human
died at 9:00 and the universe ceased to exist, then everybody was suffering
from the same mass delusion. This would mean humans are not individual but
part of a collective with a single mind in order to perceive a single
universe. On the other hand, if there was one single human that observed the
universe and that one single human died at 9:00 there would be no way to
prove the Universe exists after the one single human ceased to exist.
So your logic is circular. Man perceives the universe therefore the universe
must exist. The universe must exist because man perceives it.