"Michael Gordge" wrote in message
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On Dec 28, 7:33 pm, "Androcles" wrote:
"Michael Gordge" wrote in message

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On Dec 28, 4:48 pm, Laurent wrote:

Empty space was, then came the universe.

Wrong, space is a part of the universe, there is no such thing as
"outside, or space outside", beyond the universe is an oxymoron.

The universe includes space, the definitition of the universe is, all
of that which exists, including all of the known by man and the yet to
know and space is known, it can be sensed.

But the Kantian mystics will agree with you, they have several
definitons for each and every man made concept, even meanings which
contradict each other.

e.g. Kantians will tell you that space is where the tree is and isn't
at the exact same moment, i.e. they want their cake and to eat it
too.

And they just change the meaning of space to suit, and they do that by
pretendng that by preceding the concept with an adjective, it
magically and totally changes the meaning of the concept which it
precedes.

Michael Gordge

And then they ascribe properties to that which is not and has no
properties,
whilst ignoring any properties is should have in parallel to the
properties
they ascribe to it.
The all-pervading aether should have a varying density as air does, with
weather patterns to distort and shimmer images.
The mystics mystify themselves.
They are of the class of homo neanderthalensis that state,
"I think it must be, therefore it is".
Having seized upon what, to them, is an explanation, it becomes
a truth which no logic can shake, and is then reinforced by others
of like stupidity to whom they will listen, ignoring any counter
argument with utterances of "you don't understand". They do, of
course, and you should listen to them. Chattering gorillas, all of them.

: The noise makers!

: You get called a ****er of sheep for thinking rationally around here,
: but good to see another voice of reason.

: cheers

: MG

Yes indeed, Michael, but one should point out that science
advances on the tools the engineer provides, be it beam balance,
telescope, microscope, thermometer, refrigerator or Large Hadron
Collider.
The engineer in his turn is dependent on what new discoveries
the scientist can make and turn into something useful. Look around
the home and everything you see above the dust level has been
manufactured or processed in some way, we even have vacuum
cleaners to deal with the dust.
In 100 years, no engineer has made any use whatsoever of aether
or Einstein's relativity. That should tell a story because engineers
are a highly inventive lot and if there is money to be made, it WILL
be done.
Having disposed of crackpot theories concerning light, what else is
left? What is the next step?
I'll tell you. It is light accelerator for interplanetary communications.
It takes far too long to communicate with Spirit and Opportunity
on Mars or Cassini orbiting Saturn. This blind faith that light
has one speed only is an absurdity quickly disproven by Sagnac
and by this:
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...lgol/Algol.htm

Nature and technology is already giving light's speed a boost,
it is the responsibility of the engineer to do so on a grander scale
and leave the crackpot "scientists" in the dust.

Sagnac is a light accelerator, but few realize it.
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...nac/Sagnac.htm
They don't realize it because the scientist tells them it cannot be done,
and for that reason there is no funding available for development.
The scientist is a fool, robbing himself of an important area of physics
by his blind ignorance.