"Dr. Henri Wilson" HW@.... wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:36:39 GMT, "Androcles"

wrote:


"Dr. Henri Wilson" HW@.... wrote in message
. ..

:
: You can have a truce as soon as you explain how there are
: 14 wavelengths going ccw and 10 going cw in rayphases.exe
: when in fact 12 are emitted in each direction.
: Hint:
: http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...k/Dualwave.gif
:
: This shows two identical oscillators moving away from a common point at
: different speeds.

Yep, in the non-rotating frame they do have different speeds, c+v and c-v.
The start point isn't moving.

It is in the non-rotating frame

They have identical frequencies,

In the rotating frame, where the source and detector are at rest .. yes

different speeds

In the non-rotating frame, yes

and travel different distances in the same time.

In the non-rotating frame, yes

They have the SAME frequency in the source - or rotating - frame.

Yes

Therefore they have doppler shifted and different frequencies in the
non-rotating frame.

Yes .. but the detector is moving in the non-rotating frame, so you need to
invert the doppler shift again, and you get the fact that the frequencies
are the same at the detector. As is the speeds, and the time. So they are
in Sync

Any engineer who has heard a train whistle go past should know that.

Not when the engineer is on another train moving at the same speed and
direction as the train blowing its whistle. Derr.

That's what a different speed is.
In rayphases.exe your two oscillators have different frequencies, 0.7 Hz
and 0.5 Hz.

that's correct. They are doppler shifted in the nonrotating frame.

No.. in your animation, they are of different frequencies in the both
frames. Your animation is wrong.

If you increase the speed to your fake maximum 0.005 then
there are 18 crests blue, a frequency of 0.9 Hz and 6 red crests,
a frequency of 0.3 Hz.
Look, a kiddy jumping up and down on a bus doesn't change the frequency,
it changes the leap forward along the road as the bus increases speed.
That's right.
If you change either the frequency of a moving oscillator or its speed,
the
distance between wavecrests IN THE REST FRAME also changes.
In Sagnac, the frequency of both rays remains the same in the SOURCE
frame.
Both their speeds AND frequencies are altered by the same proportion in
the
rest frame....making their wavelengths absolute and invariant. (since
wavelength is speed/frequency)

That's what my animation shows.

[snip bitch fighting and nonsense]

I did and its on my web page, you jealous ignorant *******.
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...nac/Sagnac.htm
It's wrong.
It shows the nonrotating frame. The effect is only relevant in the
rotating
frame.

Yeup

That animation shows the light curving for no reason in the non-rotating
frame. . It would travel in straight lines in the non-rotating frame (as
there is nothing to make the light travle in a curve) .. it is in the
rotating frame that there would be an apparent coriolis effect

: I want YOU to tell Tom why his bullet analogy is wrong.
I don't give a **** what you want. That arsehole is a total
clown anyway.
I'll give you a clue.
Robert sat on the source and fired machine guns in opposite direction
around
the rotating 4 mirror Sagnac apparatus. He concluded that from his point
of
view, the bullets went around it symetrically and so must end up arriving
at
exactly the same time and at the same rate. Therefore there could be no
phase
shift according to BaTh.

What he didn't and still doesn't know is that the paths of inertially
moving
objects are CURVED in rotating frames.

Yes .. that is correct .. they appear curved in the rotating frame

The CURVED paths of bullets are slightly
different. The angles of reflection at each mirror is compounded at each
reflection.
The bullets arrive at the detector at the emission rate but are out of
phase.

THAT IS HOW AND WHERE THE CORIOLIS FORCE CONTRIBUTES TO SAGNAC. THE PATHS
ARE
CURVED IN THE ROTATING FRAME.

: YOU can tell Fecal Jeckyl, Tusseladd, Jeery and Humpty that *I* am
right.
: I agree you ARE right....but I doubt if you know why.
You are too late for that, I've already drawn the gifs.
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...nac/Sagnac.htm
It should be drawn using the rotating frame....in which the mirrors remain
still and the light paths are permanently curved.

Yes